GardenBanter.co.uk – Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

Source: https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/united-kingdom/111197-distance-learning-correspondence-courses-print.html

Ali Rolfe 02-02-2006 11:19 AM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

Hello,

I’m new to the newsgroups so I apologise if I’m posting in the wrong place.

I’ve been thinking about doing a distance learning/correspondence course in

horticulture. I was wondering if anyone here had done one, and if so which

College they learnt with.

I have received a prospectus so far from both the Institute for Horticulture

any experience with either of these two places?

Thanking you in anticipation…

Ali

cliff_the_gardener 07-02-2006 12:38 AM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

Hello,

I signed up with a course with the HCC. The info they supplied was

thorough – very complete, almost overboard.

The main thing to descide is – is this mode of learning your style.

Are you the sort of person who learns by bantering around the subject

with fellow class mates or can you just read a book and see everthing

as clear as day.

Distance learning is great – if it is right for you.

Clifford

Bawtry, Doncaster, S, Yorks

JennyC 07-02-2006 06:07 AM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

“cliff_the_gardener” wrote in message

oups.com…

Hello,
I signed up with a course with the HCC. The info they supplied was
thorough – very complete, almost overboard.
The main thing to descide is – is this mode of learning your style.
Are you the sort of person who learns by bantering around the subject
with fellow class mates or can you just read a book and see everthing
as clear as day.
Distance learning is great – if it is right for you.
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, S, Yorks

Warning OT :~)

I (almost) had an argument with one of our prospective new neighbours (Dordogne)

about learning French. She was of the’ “one needs to know the grammar before

even stating out” whereas I am of the “parrot school of learning” :~))

Jenny

Janet Baraclough 07-02-2006 10:25 AM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

The message

from “JennyC” contains these words:

Warning OT :~)
I (almost) had an argument with one of our prospective new neighbours
(Dordogne)
about learning French. She was of the’ “one needs to know the grammar before
even stating out” whereas I am of the “parrot school of learning” :~
I’d agree with her. In the case of French, a very early basic dose

of the declension of common irregular verbs makes the most basic daily

understanding, reading and speaking so much easier. It enables the

listener to recognise he’s just hearing or seeing variations of the

same frequently used verb (ai, as, avons, avez , ont, all mean “have”;

they also form part of the past tense of regular verbs ). They’ll be

listed in the early pages of a basic grammar book. Even just recognising

(by ear and in print) the forms of etre and avoir gives a massive

advantage.

If one has that basic grasp of the commonest verb variations, it’s then

quicker and easier to pick up French by “total immersion” which as you

say is the best way to learn a language. Can you get French TV at home?

Janet.

Rupert 07-02-2006 11:08 AM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

“JennyC” wrote in message

“cliff_the_gardener” wrote in message

oups.com…
Hello,
I signed up with a course with the HCC. The info they supplied was
thorough – very complete, almost overboard.
The main thing to descide is – is this mode of learning your style.
Are you the sort of person who learns by bantering around the subject
with fellow class mates or can you just read a book and see everthing
as clear as day.
Distance learning is great – if it is right for you.
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, S, Yorks

Warning OT :~)

I (almost) had an argument with one of our prospective new neighbours
(Dordogne)
about learning French. She was of the’ “one needs to know the grammar
before
even stating out” whereas I am of the “parrot school of learning” :~))
Jenny

Looks like your prospective neighbour should be getting a fair few bottles

of wine from you by way of apology.

She is right, however, if she really says “one” as the subject then forget

the wine:-)

You could always adopt the Basil Fawlty way of speaking any foreign language

which is to shout twice as loud in English.

Janet Baraclough 07-02-2006 12:06 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

The message

from “Rupert” contains these words:

if she really says “one” as the subject then forget
the wine:-)

Course she does, “on” doesn’t carry the same stilted connotation in

French that “one” does in English. It’s a also a delicate French social

courtesy to frame a little correction, or assertion, in the third

person, less confrontational than using the first or second.

You could always adopt the Basil Fawlty way of speaking any foreign
language
which is to shout twice as loud in English.
Well, that would be the best way to alienate the natives and be sure

of being stuck in the expat ghetto for ever. One had better be a very

good cook.

Janet

Judith Lea 07-02-2006 12:26 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

In article , Janet Baraclough

writes

If one has that basic grasp of the commonest verb variations, it’s then
quicker and easier to pick up French by “total immersion” which as you
say is the best way to learn a language. Can you get French TV at home?

Yes Janet, you sound just like my husband – my French is great, everyone

hangs on to my every word – they just stare at me. My husband then

explains (in a restaurant) that I have just asked for Duck jam instead

of confit d’canard.

The French waitress was also rude in that she corrected me three times

when I asked for the desert menu, it was amusing the first time she

stressed the pronunciation; and I then tried to say it as she said it,

she repeated it again, in a louder voice, and again I tried but when she

repeated it to me, in a very loud voice, for the third time, I retorted

with just bring me the ****** menu please (in my best French of course).

After all I had gone there to eat not to have a French lesson!

Judith Lea

Nick Maclaren 07-02-2006 12:42 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

In article ,

Judith Lea writes:

| In article , Janet Baraclough

| writes

| If one has that basic grasp of the commonest verb variations, it’s then

| quicker and easier to pick up French by “total immersion” which as you

| say is the best way to learn a language. Can you get French TV at home?

|

| Yes Janet, you sound just like my husband – my French is great, everyone

| hangs on to my every word – they just stare at me. My husband then

| explains (in a restaurant) that I have just asked for Duck jam instead

| of confit d’canard.

Nice 🙂

One thing that is often missed is that French is one of the hardest

languages for a Germanic language speaker to hear – far worse than

Arabic and Japanese, though not as bad as Chinese. I tried

resuscitating my French a decade ago with a tape and discovered

that the vowels are completely inaudible to me when spoken by most

Frenchwomen and are always indistinguishable from each other (as

are the word breaks). That is NOT just a matter of volume, either,

despite my hearing loss.

For the people in that situation (at a wild guess, 30% of the UK),

immersion is a complete waste of time. I used to be able to read

simple French (e.g. newspapers, popular novels) faster than most

French people, and can still read it after a fashion. I can neither

speak nor hear it reliably, but can just about communicate. This

is not all that rare, and is not always solved by any amount of

practice, immersion or torture.

Regards,

Nick Maclaren.

Sacha 07-02-2006 12:46 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

On 7/2/06 12:26, in article

, “Judith
Lea” wrote:

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
If one has that basic grasp of the commonest verb variations, it’s then
quicker and easier to pick up French by “total immersion” which as you
say is the best way to learn a language. Can you get French TV at home?

Yes Janet, you sound just like my husband – my French is great, everyone

hangs on to my every word – they just stare at me. My husband then
explains (in a restaurant) that I have just asked for Duck jam instead
of confit d’canard.
This sounds like one of my better gaffes in Italian – hot, bothered and

beleaguered by my children, I was doing some food shopping. I asked the
startled shopkeeper and his heavily pregnant wife if I could have ‘sei
pommerigi’ instead of ‘sei pommodori’ – six afternoons, instead of six
tomatoes. Once she realised I was not inviting her husband into a career as
a gigolo, the wife laughed so much I thought she was going to give birth
then and there!

The French waitress was also rude in that she corrected me three times

when I asked for the desert menu, it was amusing the first time she
stressed the pronunciation; and I then tried to say it as she said it,
she repeated it again, in a louder voice, and again I tried but when she
repeated it to me, in a very loud voice, for the third time, I retorted
with just bring me the ****** menu please (in my best French of course).
After all I had gone there to eat not to have a French lesson!

VERY rude! But I think that a smattering of the basics and then as much

chat as you can get your hands on is a very good way to learn a language.
If you have just a start in the verbs and how to ask for a few things in
shops etc., it’s remarkable how quickly you can build on that. Some friends
of mine moved to France several years ago and spoke what was really very
basic school French. They made a deliberate choice to live where there were
no foreigners and within a year they had made almost entirely French friends
and were yakking away nineteen to the dozen.

Sacha

www.hillhousenursery.co.uk

South Devon

)

Rusty Hinge 2 07-02-2006 01:47 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

The message

from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

I’d agree with her. In the case of French, a very early basic dose
of the declension of common irregular verbs
Conjugation, IYWBSK – Declensions are for nouns.

makes the most basic daily
understanding, reading and speaking so much easier. It enables the
listener to recognise he’s just hearing or seeing variations of the
same frequently used verb (ai, as, avons, avez , ont, all mean “have”;
they also form part of the past tense of regular verbs ). They’ll be
listed in the early pages of a basic grammar book. Even just recognising
(by ear and in print) the forms of etre and avoir gives a massive
advantage.
Je suis que Je suis, mai Je ne suis pas que Je suis.

If one has that basic grasp of the commonest verb variations, it’s then
quicker and easier to pick up French by “total immersion” which as you
say is the best way to learn a language. Can you get French TV at home?
I tend to the ‘little bit of grammar and vocabulary, then throw in the

deep-end’ approach. By this method I learnt quickly, and at school I

spoke French quite fluently, gaining 95% for GCE French Oral.

J’ai forgottenai most de it maintenant innit.

Rusty

Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk

Separator in search of a sig

Rusty Hinge 2 07-02-2006 02:00 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

The message

from Sacha contains these words:

On 7/2/06 12:26, in article , “Judith
Lea” wrote:

Yes Janet, you sound just like my husband – my French is great, everyone

hangs on to my every word – they just stare at me. My husband then
explains (in a restaurant) that I have just asked for Duck jam instead
of confit d’canard.

This sounds like one of my better gaffes in Italian – hot, bothered and
beleaguered by my children, I was doing some food shopping. I asked the
startled shopkeeper and his heavily pregnant wife if I could have ‘sei
pommerigi’ instead of ‘sei pommodori’ – six afternoons, instead of six
tomatoes. Once she realised I was not inviting her husband into a career as
a gigolo, the wife laughed so much I thought she was going to give birth
then and there!
And my sister while at the University of Pisa, asking for ‘finoccio’ –

take your pick, either fennel or a gay bloke. She very soon learnt to

point to suggestively shaped vegetables too, and ask for half a kilo of

those, and three of those, and…

The French waitress was also rude in that she corrected me three times
when I asked for the desert menu, it was amusing the first time she
stressed the pronunciation; and I then tried to say it as she said it,
she repeated it again, in a louder voice, and again I tried but when she
repeated it to me, in a very loud voice, for the third time, I retorted
with just bring me the ****** menu please (in my best French of course).
After all I had gone there to eat not to have a French lesson!
VERY rude! But I think that a smattering of the basics and then as much
chat as you can get your hands on is a very good way to learn a language.
If you have just a start in the verbs and how to ask for a few things in
shops etc., it’s remarkable how quickly you can build on that. Some friends
of mine moved to France several years ago and spoke what was really very
basic school French. They made a deliberate choice to live where there were
no foreigners and within a year they had made almost entirely French friends
and were yakking away nineteen to the dozen.
It’s loike thet hair in Naaaaarfk, thet it is. Dew yew troy tew foller

some squit sometimes and yer lorst.

Rusty

Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk

Separator in search of a sig

Judith Lea 07-02-2006 02:00 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

In article , Sacha

writes

This sounds like one of my better gaffes in Italian – hot, bothered and

beleaguered by my children, I was doing some food shopping. I asked the
startled shopkeeper and his heavily pregnant wife if I could have ‘sei
pommerigi’ instead of ‘sei pommodori’ – six afternoons, instead of six
tomatoes. Once she realised I was not inviting her husband into a career as
a gigolo, the wife laughed so much I thought she was going to give birth
then and there!

You hussy!

They made a deliberate choice to live where there were
no foreigners and within a year they had made almost entirely French friends
and were yakking away nineteen to the dozen.
Us too, we don’t have any English in the vicinity but my husband who

worked and lived in France in fluent and when I am with him, he tends to

do the talking but I do go and take coffee with my farmer neighbours,

adorable couple, and I chat away, Henri’s eyes glaze over every now and

then but Marie-Louise seems to understand me and we spend a lot of time

together – she shows me how to make a meal from nothing and I then tell

Edward who actually does the cooking (I’m not that daft).

Judith Lea

La Puce 07-02-2006 02:05 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

Nick Maclaren wrote:

For the people in that situation (at a wild guess, 30% of the UK),
immersion is a complete waste of time. I used to be able to read
simple French (e.g. newspapers, popular novels) faster than most
French people, and can still read it after a fashion. I can neither
speak nor hear it reliably, but can just about communicate. This
is not all that rare, and is not always solved by any amount of
practice, immersion or torture.

Not torture, one would hope, but immersion is the key I’m certain, that

and love. My husband is very dyslexic, and at school his French was non

existant. He however got a 1st at uni and a master’s degree, wrote

hundreds of publications and a few books. He lectures and give many

conferences around the world, notably in France, annually, and in

French.

After over 20 years he’s been listening to my family twice a year, and

me, he has now an amazing grasp for the language but also the nuances,

the puns that the French loves so much. He has never studied it, but

simply communicated as much as he could. He cannot read nor write

French either. Just talk.

Les jardiniers sont dotĂ©s d’une sensibilitĂ© Ă  fleur de pot.

Nick Maclaren 07-02-2006 02:24 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

In article .com,

“La Puce” writes:

|

| Not torture, one would hope, but immersion is the key I’m certain, that

| and love. My husband is very dyslexic, and at school his French was non

| existant. He however got a 1st at uni and a master’s degree, wrote

| hundreds of publications and a few books. He lectures and give many

| conferences around the world, notably in France, annually, and in

| French.

Dyslexia is affected by unrelated neural pathways, and so is

completely irrelevant.

Yes, immersion is the key in learning the auditory neural pathways,

and those get increasingly hard to learn in old age (i.e. after

about 5 years old). That is why Chinese is very hard to learn,

and a few North American Indian languages effectively impossible.

As I said, French is very hard for many/most Germanic speakers,

because it depends on acoustic features that are essentially

unused in those languages.

You may not know that the recognition of basic ‘objects’ (i.e.

shape, pattern and colour for sight, and sounds as in vowels,

consonants, animal noises etc.) is largely genetic and developed

before birth for sight (and is common to almost all humans), but

is learnt after birth for sounds (and is NOT common to all people).

But it is so.

In particular, if you have not learnt to hear certain sounds by

the age of 5 or so, you probably never will – even if you have

an early hearing problem that is later corrected.

Regards,

Nick Maclaren.

Sacha 07-02-2006 02:57 PM

Distance Learning/Correspondence Courses

On 7/2/06 14:24, in article , “Nick

Maclaren” wrote:

snip

In particular, if you have not learnt to hear certain sounds by

the age of 5 or so, you probably never will – even if you have
an early hearing problem that is later corrected.

I don’t know if this is correct but I was told some years ago that the

LycĂ©e International won’t accept anyone who did not start to learn French by

the age of four. This was told me by someone who had been through that

system and he said that this was because after that age it is ‘impossible’

to learn to pronounce French as the French themselves speak it.

Sacha

www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon

)

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